Banjo Tone and Joe Morley's Banjo!!

[thereallyniceman]

It seems that even in 1965 Joe Morley's banjo was alive and well !

Here is an interesting article from the BMG of October 1965

The comments about the Morley's banjo made me smile :-)

Full article is here:

[Joel Hooks]

Famous American West person Bat Masterson was quite found of selling pawn shop Colt revolvers to folks who came to see him. There are a lot of genuine "Bat Masterson" revolvers floating around.

They were really owned by him, at least for a short time.

[Jody Stecher]

Same for Fred Bacon's "personal banjo". And Ralph Stanley's banjo. And Byron Berline's fiddle.

Joel Hooks said:

Famous American West person Bat Masterson was quite found of selling pawn shop Colt revolvers to folks who came to see him. There are a lot of genuine "Bat Masterson" revolvers floating around.

They were really owned by him, at least for a short time.

[Jody Stecher]

It is interesting to note that the author considers the useful life of a natural vellum to be One Year!  That's a very short time. He also thinks that the player, the bridge, the strings and the vellum are the 4 most important elements. Taking a cue from Dan'l Boone's Axe is it unreasonable to wonder if Joe Morley's banjo with new strings, new bridge, and new vellum is really Joe Morley's banjo any more.  

[Steve Harrison]

It's a bit like the old joke about the original axe that cut off the head of Anne Boleyn..It's had a few new heads and a few new shafts but it's the same old axe!...Steve.

[Trapdoor2]

Somewhere I read (or watched it on TV) where the "axe" (sometimes it isn't an axe) joke is common across many cultures. Over here it is either George Washington's or Abe Lincoln's. Jody said Daniel Boone...but that's the first time I've heard Mr. Boone had one. ;-)

Ah, I found it. See: Ship of Theseus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

 

[Russ Chandler]

Why is it "an undisputed fact that banjos cannot improve with age"?

[Jody Stecher]

wonderful stuff!  I love Thomas Hobbes' question. 

"Plutarch thus questions whether the ship would remain the same if it were entirely replaced, piece by piece. Centuries later, the philosopher Thomas Hobbes introduced a further puzzle, wondering: what would happen if the original planks were gathered up after they were replaced, and used to build a second ship.^[3] Which ship, if either, is the original Ship of Theseus?"

Some time ago I had a five string banjo neck made, a replica of a 1926 Gibson RB 4. I connected this to the pot of of 1926 TB 4. I still have the tenor neck. If at some theoretical time in the future I decide that I still like this repro neck but that I prefer the sound of a different pot and I connect the new pot to this neck and I also re-connect the tenor neck to the original pot, there seems to me to be no anomaly or grey area at all. The original tenor is restored. It is the same banjo. The "new" five-string banjo is a new banjo that never before existed. Am I missing something?

Trapdoor2 said:

Somewhere I read (or watched it on TV) where the "axe" (sometimes it isn't an axe) joke is common across many cultures. Over here it is either George Washington's or Abe Lincoln's. Jody said Daniel Boone...but that's the first time I've heard Mr. Boone had one. ;-)

Ah, I found it. See: Ship of Theseus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

 

[Jody Stecher]

This is an example of a basically sound idea badly expressed. The idea of age (not) improving a banjo *is* disputed. The author means that  he thinks the "fact" is irrefutable, not that no one has attempted to refute it.  He may be right or wrong but I think that's what he means. I think I know why he means that. Unlike an entirely wooden instrument like a violin or guitar which, if well made and well-played will attain its full potential only after several years of frequent playing,  the banjo is essentially an assembly of components which properly joined will often sound its best after about 3 days of playing which is what it takes to "convince" the components to work together as a system. The reason for this is that the components tend to deteriorate over time.  This view doesn't take into into account the affect that a good player has on a banjo.

Russ Chandler said:

Why is it "an undisputed fact that banjos cannot improve with age"?

[Steve Harrison]

Hi Jody..The other factor to take into consideration is the ability of the listener to appreciate good tone. I'm now 65 and have to wear hearing aids which means my appreciation of good tone has depreciated with the years. A banjo that sounds good to one listener may not sound as good to another. Everyone's hearing ability differs.

Another important factor is the environment in which the banjo is played. I studied electronics way back in the 1960's and I remember one of my lecturers being very critical about what is good HiFi as there are so many external factors that influence the perception of sound quality. It's one of those issues where there isn't a 'right' answer.......Steve.

[Jody Stecher]

Agreed. Now *those* two points are incontestable. What a banjo sounds like depends on both the environment in which it is heard and on the receptive capacity of the hearer. I have a favorite chair in a favorite spot to play the banjo. Any banjo sounds better to me played there than it does played elsewhere. What it sounds like to a listener in front is almost certainly not what I'm hearing.

Steve Harrison said:

Hi Jody..The other factor to take into consideration is the ability of the listener to appreciate good tone. I'm now 65 and have to wear hearing aids which means my appreciation of good tone has depreciated with the years. A banjo that sounds good to one listener may not sound as good to another. Everyone's hearing ability differs.

Another important factor is the environment in which the banjo is played. I studied electronics way back in the 1960's and I remember one of my lecturers being very critical about what is good HiFi as there are so many external factors that influence the perception of sound quality. It's one of those issues where there isn't a 'right' answer.......Steve.

[3iv8pyyhxxoiv]

Well, I have played at least one of Joe Morley's Weaver banjos.  It's the one that he is playing in the third picture down in his biography on this site.  It is owned by a friend and its provenance is known and incontestable.  It's a very good classic banjo, and I didn't sound any better on it than on my garage sale SS Stewart Grade 2 clunker.....but I can't play like Joe Morley!

In addition, I met and corresponded with the author of the quoted 1965 article (the late Cyril Phillips) on a number of occasions in the 1960's.   He was a fine gentleman, highly intelligent and a darn good banjo player.  He had his opinions (as expressed in that article), as we all do, but he was 100% open to any and all ideas about the banjo and was an all-round A1 chap. I'm sure that had he been with us now, he would have enjoyed (and probably contributed) to this discussion.....

Jody Stecher said:

Agreed. Now *those* two points are incontestable. What a banjo sounds like depends on both the environment in which it is heard and on the receptive capacity of the hearer. I have a favorite chair in a favorite spot to play the banjo. Any banjo sounds better to me played there than it does played elsewhere. What it sounds like to a listener in front is almost certainly not what I'm hearing.

Steve Harrison said:

Hi Jody..The other factor to take into consideration is the ability of the listener to appreciate good tone. I'm now 65 and have to wear hearing aids which means my appreciation of good tone has depreciated with the years. A banjo that sounds good to one listener may not sound as good to another. Everyone's hearing ability differs.

Another important factor is the environment in which the banjo is played. I studied electronics way back in the 1960's and I remember one of my lecturers being very critical about what is good HiFi as there are so many external factors that influence the perception of sound quality. It's one of those issues where there isn't a 'right' answer.......