I'm aware that a few classic style players used Gibsons in the past, and I'm wondering if anyone here has tried it with a 40-hole archtop or a flathead? It'd be interesting to see how these sound with nylon or gut and a period bridge.

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Chris, if I'm correct Bluegrass players usually put smooth Remo's on archtops, and Mike's PB-3 has a smooth head installed.  Normally I use frosted-top Remo's for classic style.  Is there a reason I should keep the smooth head on there?  I've tried them before on two banjos (Bacon Super and Bacon Silver Bell) and didn't end up liking them on either, so I swapped them for frosted top heads.  I used to use Renaissance, but I've grown to not like those either.  For my playing style frosted tops have sounded great with everything I've tried them on... Vega Whyte Laydie/Tubaphone, Clifford Essex Concert Grand, Silver Bell, Van Eps, SS Stewart, Orpheum, etc.

I use frosted top plain jane normal remos for everything....unless something is odd.

Some banjos are raucous, and if so, I'll try a stew mac or fiberskin or sometjhing, both of which suck rocks on good banjos, but on obnoxious banjos, they have their place to calm things down sometimes if nothing else works....so, two "obnoxi cancel each other out"...???

Watch the sweeping generalizations.

A lot of raised heads are EXCELLENT BANJOS with EXCELLENT FULL bass response....it's just that most dont' know how to get that out of them, or adjust their right hands accordingly, so I see absolutely no reason, if a cast Gibson ring banjo is workable at all for CB, why a raised head woudn't excell just like a flathead.

Same for Bacons, Paramounts, etc....

When i worked on the PB-3, it had a regular top frosted remo that I put on it.  Mike may have changed it, but I didn't think Mike was a smooth top kind of guy.

I can tell you, if that banjo is HALF what it is with steel string when you put nylons on it, it will rock your world.

Smooth top heads going wth raised heads is just an urban legend perpetuated by the same folks that thing raised heads are only for and sound just like Ralph Stanley.

All of that is just not true.

Every banjo, every bridge, every set up, every player's right hand is different.

So, the combinations are just too myriad to put dogmatic conclusions to generalized statements.

I use frosted top heads on all my classic banjos FIRST after either restoring them or just setting them up myself for myself first since that kind of head is somethign I'm SO used to since I was 13 years old, so I do that as a reference placebo...so I sort of know what i have with that as a reference.

Then, I may make changes after I experience the banjo a while and have thoughts as I play with final set up.

Sometimes, like on the 20's large WL I told you I was restoring way back when I met you, I'm inclined to just leave the frosted top on it...it sounded so good with it's first set up off the bench, I don't really want to change anything.

But sometimes, other banjos/situations may lead me to a Ren or whatever if I feel something needs attention.

There is no one perfect banjo, and any given banjo IF IF IF it's put together, aligned and assembled properly, and is a decent banjo, may take a good bit of time and head scratching to get it to where it just honks.

The bridge search alone could go on the rest of your life if you let it....every bridge is different (there is no consistency with the same maker, model, etc...every piece of wood is just different).

Don Reno said years ago he literaly almost drove himself crazy playing with bridges and finally just quit doing it once he was pretty happy with his set up at that time.

Allen Shelton told me when I was a kid when he had just had his RB-250 refretted that he went ahead and had a new bridge put on it.

I asked how many times since the 50's when he got it had he had it refretted or how many bridges had he had on it all those years....he laughed (he laughed  a lot) and said that was the first time he ever had to have work done on it (frets were just worn out) and that that was the second bridge he'd ever had on that banjo all those decades.

Even at 14, I couldn't believe it.

A testament to once the banjo is good and set up the way you want it, it's time to stop and just play it.

I'll be curious what you think of the PB-3....it's a stellar banjo...one of the REALLY good raised heads with tons of mojo.

The clip Mike made for me shows how much it rocks with steel strings.  I'm really looking forward to trying it with nylon.  Even better if that frosted top is still on there!

By the way, what raised head Bacons are you referring to above? Silver Bells are flat heads.

Chris, I use fiberskyn heads on some verrrry good banjos. For instance if I used a frosted Remo on my Clifford Essex Regal or my 1926 Gibson ball bearing RB 4 the head itself would create raucous sounds, sounds not inherent in the banjo itself and not apparent with a natural vellum or a fiberskyn. 

John, I can't remember how many arch top Gibsons I have played and seen. Less than a hundred but not by much. Of these I can recall exactly how many had a smooth plastic head: Two. One of em was black. It looked great on the gold plated banjo. It sounded horrible. 

John, many silverbells in the Gretsch period are raised heads.

Your first paragraph is one example of what I meant, Jody.

Oh, you mean the Symphonie Silver Bells.  I personally don't consider those to be "real" Silver Bells, but I hear you.  

My Stelling archtop currently wears a fiberskyn head. Originally delivered with clear mylar (at my request) but there was such a terrible plating job on the AT ring that I couldn't stand to look at it thru the head and I changed it out (I never understood why Geoff would deliver something like that).

My personal preference has always been to have the frosting on the inside, I never liked the feel (or sound) of a top-frosted head.

The PB-3 arrived, and like Chris said it has plenty of bass response.  The neck profile is sublime- one of the reasons I wanted a Gibson for classic style. It sounds really great with steel strings, but I'm going to switch to nylon as soon as I can and report back.  First I've got to find someone who can widen the nut slots.  Luckily there are no Keith tuners to deal with!


By the way, nice fretwork Chris!

Thanks, John!  

I thought you'ld like that banjo....everyone who ever played was kind of amazed by it.

I've still got the original nut, and it has wide enough grooves for gut or nylon.  Should I reinstall it or did it have issues?  I presume you removed it for a reason.  Also, the Presto will most likely have to go.  Any recommendations?  I've got an Oettinger lying around here somewhere that might do the trick.

Lastly, how the heck does this peg work?

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John, I can't honestly remember.....it's been 3-ish years since I did the work, and I just can't remember the details you ask about, other than when I do a re-fret, I almost always change to a fresh nut as it's very difficult to seat it back the way it was as well as the new frets likely are not at the same level as the old, so the slot parameters, having very close tolerances in relation to the frets, usually don't work out trying to re-use the old nut.

I'm going to be scarce on here for a while as I have some personal and professional things I need to take care of that won't resolve quickly and need my attention.

Good luck with the banjo!

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