Strings for a Concert Grand

[John Cohen]

I've got my Concert Grand set up and ready to play.  I replaced the bone nut with an ebony nut, installed a renaissance head, and installed an original Clifford Essex adjustable tailpiece and armrest.  I also re-inked the inlays and was surprised at the quality of the engraving.  It's not Consalvi, but it's not bad either!  I tried to capture the inlays in a photo but I'm afraid it doesn't show how good they look in person.  Overall, the banjo cleaned up really well and is much better condition than I thought at the time of purchase.  Other than geared tuners, it's in excellent condition and is a real looker.  It's the sweetest little banjo I've ever played, and I'm really enjoying the Clifford Essex "pop".  

I've currently got it strung with Labella 17's on a Clifford Essex "Morley" bridge.  It has the "pop" but it is quiet and kind of muted sounding with a lot of reverb.  It sounds beautiful for softer music but isn't as snappy, short, and bright as it should be based on videos of other people playing Concert Grands.  What strings would you suggest I try?  I'm waiting on a set of Savarez Alliance strings that are low tension but sound very crisp and snappy on the other banjos I've used them on.  I've also got a set of Chris Sands heavies lying around, but I'd rather not try them unless they are especially good for Concert Grands.  I really do prefer the lower tension strings.  I tried a lighter bridge (one that Joel Hooks made me) and it sounded completely dead and tubby with no response and lots of reverb- odd since that bridge in particular brings out the best, brightest sound of my other banjos.

[Jody Stecher]

Chris Sands heavies *are* in fact great on this model banjo. This is a heavy banjo. "The Whyte Laydie on Steroids". Light strings of the capellini ("angel hair" pasta) variety may not generate enough energy to drive her. This banjo wants at least spaghetti gauge and maybe bucatini!

  Why is the bridge on angle? It should be nicely in tune with a straight bridge with nylon strings. Makes me wonder about the grooves on the new nut. The Ren head should be very tight. This banjo should sound some kind of great with almost any bridge. But with any setup you've got to give it 48 hours to settle in to see how it really might go.

[John Cohen]

The bridge is angled to achieve perfect intonation, just like how the saddles on an electric guitar are moved backwards or forwards. I've yet to encounter an old banjo that intonates perfectly with a straight bridge.

[Trapdoor2]

Looks really good!

I agree that the Sands heavies will do quite well...and drive any standard bridge. My favorite bridge is the Cole type (5-footed). I'm playing guts on my CE Special right now...I like them a lot. However, I prefer high tension strings with a good bit of stiffness to them.

And...I angle my bridges for intonation also (and always have, steel or nylon).

[thereallyniceman]

I found that the Renaissance head goes through a distinct "sweet spot" when tightening. I found that with a head tightened so that it was fairly easy to deform it with a push from the thumb, and then slowly tightened the tone/ clarity just springs to life only to disappear again when tightened too much. Even my friends, who would prefer to burn my banjos, said that mine sounds lovely.

 Recently while suffering from the remnants of a head cold I felt the banjo sounded a bit dull, so gave it a tweak tighter and it sounded awful. Now I am struggling to get the tone back by slackening it again!  It is slowly getting there as everything stabilises (just as Jody says).

I angle the bridge until the 12th fret harmonic on the fourth string sounds the same as the fretted 12th and the open string (but obviously an octave higher), and the same with the first string.

[Jody Stecher]

I understand why people angle their bridges but I also find it solves one set of problems and causes others. But to each his own. And that brings me to the main subject of this message. John: if you find that this banjo is not what you were looking for after all, I have a student who would be over the moon to buy and play this banjo, provided that the neck is reasonably straight.  I hope it works out for you. But if not…I can nearly guarantee a sale.

[John Cohen]

Thanks Jody, but I'm definitely not looking to sell it- it sounds lovely and I'm sure I can get it to sound even better with the right set up.  It's also the best playing banjo I've come across.

[Jody Stecher]

Excellent. This model is a humdinger. Not all classic players like it because of the weight and the large neck. I think it's a great banjo.

John Cohen said:

Thanks Jody, but I'm definitely not looking to sell it- it sounds lovely and I'm sure I can get it to sound even better with the right set up.  It's also the best playing banjo I've come across.

[John Cohen]

As a guitarist I really appreciate the wide neck, and the weight is no problem since the banjo is only played seated.

Jody Stecher said:

Excellent. This model is a humdinger. Not all classic players like it because of the weight and the large neck. I think it's a great banjo.

John Cohen said:

Thanks Jody, but I'm definitely not looking to sell it- it sounds lovely and I'm sure I can get it to sound even better with the right set up.  It's also the best playing banjo I've come across.

[John Cohen]

I tightened the head up some more (I can still depress it with my thumb without too much effort) and that helped a little.  I think part of my issue is that I'm not digging in hard enough with my fingertips- when I really go at it, I can get a nice tone even with the flimsy Labellla strings.  It just takes more effort than I'm used to, and I can only get the tone at volumes too loud for my apartment.  Luckily I have a Clifford Essex banjo mute that I can put to good use.  I also have to get used to the high action.  All of my previous banjos had undergone neck resets at some point in the past and had low action.  My Concert Grand on the other hand has 5mm action at the 12th fret with a 1/2 inch bridge, but if I'm not mistaken this is an ideal action for classic style playing. 

There's something very musical about the sound of this banjo that I really like.  It sounds like banjo and has plenty of snap, crackle, and pop but it isn't cold or thin like the Whyte Laydie's I've played.  I much prefer it to the sound of the Tubaphone I owned as well.

[Jody Stecher]

You have described the Concert Grand tone very well. The action on mine is not low either. No problem.

John Cohen said:

I tightened the head up some more (I can still depress it with my thumb without too much effort) and that helped a little.  I think part of my issue is that I'm not digging in hard enough with my fingertips- when I really go at it, I can get a nice tone even with the flimsy Labellla strings.  It just takes more effort than I'm used to, and I can only get the tone at volumes too loud for my apartment.  Luckily I have a Clifford Essex banjo mute that I can put to good use.  I also have to get used to the high action.  All of my previous banjos had undergone neck resets at some point in the past and had low action.  My Concert Grand on the other hand has 5mm action at the 12th fret with a 1/2 inch bridge, but if I'm not mistaken this is an ideal action for classic style playing. 

There's something very musical about the sound of this banjo that I really like.  It sounds like banjo and has plenty of snap, crackle, and pop but it isn't cold or thin like the Whyte Laydie's I've played.  I much prefer it to the sound of the Tubaphone I owned as well.

[John Cohen]

For the most part I think I prefer the high action, the exception being fast pull offs with a stretched left hand like those found in the 3rd part of Eli Green's Cakewalk.  Most of the time I'm finding it makes for cleaner playing and fretting, and obviously the tone is much better than it would be with low action.

[John Cohen]

Here's a little update:  The Labella 17's took longer than usual to break in on this banjo, but now that they have they surprisingly sound very good, so good in fact that I think I'll be keeping them on there!