A Joe Morley piece in the key of C minor

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Comment by carrie horgan on January 10, 2015 at 15:57

Perfect for a windy, rainy day here in Norfolk.  I'm trying to get to grips with reading music scores so not entirely sure this is how it should sound - any feedback appreciated.  It is minus the third part which really needs the second banjo.

Comment by Trapdoor2 on January 10, 2015 at 17:20

Well done! This is a fun piece to play. The only advice I'd give is to really accentuate the grace-note slurs...I like to think of them as lightning bolts during the hailstorm.

There is a recording of this by Bert & Myrtle Torrance...and it runs like a racehorse. Too fast, I think (and difficult to discern which is 1st and which is 2nd banjo in some bits).

Comment by Jody Stecher on January 10, 2015 at 17:35

Nice playing, Carrie. When I was learning to read music, after I had been an ear player for 25 years or so, I had not too much trouble getting the right notes but my comprehension of how long each note should be was incomplete to say the least. I do better these days by examining the rhythms before bothering with pitches other than to notice "it goes up here, and down there".  I think this approach might work for you.  You have correctly intuited that your rendition does not completely align with what is written. Perfectly fine to deviate with intention but that is not what's happening here, right?

There are two meaning of "how it should sound".  One meaning is "what did the composer intend"?  Comparing your recording to the score in the site library there are differences. For instance you are starting with a rhythmic pattern before beginning to play the piece itself. It's not in the score. That's ok, No problem about this sort of thing. But... This pattern is the same one you begin the actual piece with, intending — I think — to play what is written. But that pattern is not what Morley wrote, at least not in the score in the library. Take a look at the first measure. There are 7 notes. You are playing 8.  His score begins with an open C that is twice as long as the next two notes. One crotchet (quarter note) followed by two quavers (eighth notes). The second half of the first measure is four quavers and its first note is the open fifth string string. You are playing the first half of the measure as four quavers, and that lands the open fifth string on an offbeat instead of it starting the second half of the measure. Morley's rhythm in the first measure is Boom Chicka Booma Chicka/ 1-34/1234. And melodically it consists of a long low note followed by two ascending 3 note patterns of C Eb G, the first of which starts on a downbeat and the second which starts on an offbeat. This would give a ragtime feel when played as written. 

Also, I think that if the piece is played a little faster or even at your pace here, I think the the third part will stand on its own. Those long rests are not actually taking a lot of time. It's do-able.

The other meaning of "how it should sound" is the literal meaning. What should the sound of the banjo be? And I think it should be the sound without the electronic tuner on the headstock and constricting the tone quality.  Most players cannot hear the difference from behind the banjo. But in front there is a significant difference. Microphones of all sorts tend to increase the effect of the gripped peghead. The neck and headstock do vibrate when a banjo string is struck. You can verify the tonal difference by replicating the effect of the tuner grip by squeezing and releasing the headstock in the same place the tuner grips it. Play one string and then release the grip and then return the grip and release again. You will hear the difference immediately. 

Comment by Jody Stecher on January 10, 2015 at 17:45

I agree with trapdoor Marc. The Torrences play the piece too fast. It does sound like hailstones but also like they had too much coffee. Like 8 cups in one gulp.

HAILSTORM JIG by The Torrences
Comment by carrie horgan on January 10, 2015 at 19:12

Thank you both for your feedback, I appreciate it. I am here to learn! I have made a quick video to see if I have got the timing.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwFkFOQBRG0

Cheers
Carrie

Comment by Jody Stecher on January 10, 2015 at 19:38

Not there quite yet, Carrie. The open C string needs to sound literally twice as long as the rest of the notes of the first measure. do it verrrrry slowly and you'll get it.

All the grace notes in this piece are occur right before open fifth strings. Play this kind of grace note with a time value of about a 64/th of a  second. they are so quick that it almost sounds as if it is played at the same time as the fifth string but it does go first. You are playing these F sharp grace notes as if they were melody notes, giving them too much time. If the open G 5th string goes "twang", the graced string goes "ptwang". the p takes up hardly any time at all. It's like the difference between Hogan and Horgan. Hogan has no r grace note. Horgan does, especially with a hard r as in parts of the west of Ireland, but not as hard as in Glasgow.  Horrigan is how you are playing it, giving the R too much time, treating the R, the grace, note as if it were another syllable.

Time the playing exactly as you would if there was no indicated grace note.

Comment by thereallyniceman on January 10, 2015 at 20:06

Maybe it is just me, but I wouldn't play the grace note the way it suggests by using the octave string (the G with the double tail upwards)!

The Fsharp grace note, plays almost at the same time as the G as Jody suggests. Like a "bDING" sound.

I would fret the Fsharp on the 2nd string at the 7th fret with my  3rd finger Lhand, and the G at the 1st string 5th fret with my 1st finger L Hand.

Picked with 1st finger RHand on the Fsharp and  2nd finger R Hand for the G. A little twist of the picking fingers gives the "bDING" required. Then the thumb is ready for the open C on the bass string.

Good luck.

Comment by Jody Stecher on January 10, 2015 at 20:25

yes, no matter how it's fingered, it is "bDing".  

Comment by carrie horgan on January 10, 2015 at 21:06

Great, thank you for both for your helpful comments.  I will work on the bDING and hopefully post an update soon!

Comment by Jody Stecher on January 11, 2015 at 4:02

Hmm, after thinking it over I wonder if we're all talking about the same thing and seeing the same score. In measure 2 of the score in the library the e does not become natural and move to the second fret of the first string. It's still e flat as in the key signature and has a 1 over it to indicate the first finger. Then on Carrie's "capture 2" video it seems she is playing the first measure and a half of Part 2 as example of grace notes. But there are no grace notes there. A grace note occurs in the score immediately after she point she stops playing. Was that to indicate that this is the point after which she is asking "now what do I do"?  To further complicate the matter i just listened to the Torrence recording ("torrents" in this case) at 20 % speed and discovered that they are playing the f sharp notes indicated as grace notes in the score not as grace notes (not as bDing) but as quavers. I think bDing is better. Yikes! I almost  typed "dBetter".

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