Chromatic sequences...how do you play/finger them?

[Trapdoor2]

I'm TABbing out "Hoop-e-Kack", a piece recorded by Ossman in the 19-oughts. It features a decending two-measure chromatic sequence:

In the published notation, this sequence has RH fingering using only the middle and index fingers (alternating, starting with the middle)...and the LH fingering of "2" (both are applied to the first five notes of the sequence only).

I believe this indicates that one would use their LH middle finger (2) to start on the "A" at the 19th fret and simply slide down the neck whilst twiddling one's middle and index fingers. This seems inefficient to me...

How would you play this sequence?

Here's Mr. Ossman to play it for you:

 

 

[Jody Stecher]

A interesting puzzle. I wasn't able to picture the 2-s in my mind and  I didn't notice at first that a pdf file of the notation is attached at the bottom of your post so I located my own copy which turned out to be the same as yours. Now that I've seen it I agree with your interpretation that the intended left hand fingering is the middle finger all the way down. And I agree that this may not be the ideal fingering ( although I *have* played very rapid chromatic passages using one finger, usually on mandolin, and usually the index finger.)

  I noticed that there is a note at the bottom of the page saying that alternate fingering is one option and the other is "tremolo". I understand that to mean that the passage may be played by the wiggling of a single digit of the right hand. I've attached both the note and the chromatic passage, directly below.

I would play this passage differently. In the right hand I *might* alternate middle and index as indicated in the score, and I *might* reverse it, starting with the index. Much more likely would be the Joe Morley option of alternating thumb and index, in that order. For the left hand I would place my little finger at fret 19, the 3rd finger at fret 18, the middle finger at fret 17, and the index finger at fret 16. I would lift them one by one as the string is struck. For the next 4 notes I would shift to the second string and lay down the four fingers once again, with the little finger at fret 18 and the index at fret 15. This keeps the first 8 notes in a small area of the fingerboard, spanning 5 frets. For the next 8 notes I would do the same thing, beginning on the first string at fret 11 and descending to fret 8. Then I would shift to fret 10 on the second string and descend  to fret 7. 

[Trapdoor2]

Yes, I've never been able to really make the single-string chromatic run work at all. I've seen it done brilliantly...sounds like mud when I do it.

Here's a possiblity...which I can actually perform. Not exactly "classic banjo" kosher but, hey, FVE was using the 5th string to do stuff like this. It helps me as it is a 'fixed' position that simply shifts down the neck every 3 notes. Takes quick shifting, perhaps double clutching as well... MTI-MTI-MTI.

[thereallyniceman]

I don't think that the notated fingering is correct.. but that is no surprise as many (most) of the published stuff in the era was printed by people who had never held a banjo!

On a quick look, I would fret the A at the 19th with 1st finger and the Gsharp on 2nd string with the 3rd finger at 21st fret ( picking alternately with 2nd and 1st fingers).. the same finger shape sliding down the fret board...  G  Fsharp ....  F  E...   Eflat D.  

Then play across the 3 strings at the 13th for the Csharp, to the  F on the third string .   Then down to the 5th pos for the  for F on string 2 fretted with  2nd finger and the A on string 1 with the 4th finger... then the rest of the section at the 5th position.

..If you can understand that!  Of course these things would change everytime I played it..until I came up with the best way for me!

[Jody Stecher]

Ian's solution was the first that occurred to me but when I tried it I found there was too much sustain and one note blurred into the next. This passage goes so fast that to replicate Ossman's staccato sound on this descending chromatic passage, sequential notes on the same string seemed to work best for me. But I've just tried Marc's pattern and it works better for me but I find using three strings and 3 right hand fingers makes my head hurt. I then tried the entire passage alternating between 1st and 5th string using the middle finger of the right hand for the first string and thumb for the fifth string and it plays easily and sounds the most like the Ossman recording.

thereallyniceman said:

I don't think that the notated fingering is correct.. but that is no surprise as many (most) of the published stuff in the era was printed by people who had never held a banjo!

On a quick look, I would fret the A at the 19th with 1st finger and the Gsharp on 2nd string with the 3rd finger at 21st fret ( picking alternately with 2nd and 1st fingers).. the same finger shape sliding down the fret board...  G  Fsharp ....  F  E...   Eflat D.  

Then play across the 3 strings at the 13th for the Csharp, to the  F on the third string .   Then down to the 5th pos for the  for F on string 2 fretted with  2nd finger and the A on string 1 with the 4th finger... then the rest of the section at the 5th position.

..If you can understand that!  Of course these things would change everytime I played it..until I came up with the best way for me!

[thereallyniceman]

Yes Jody, this is not as straight forward as it looks!

[thereallyniceman]

Another thought...

Ossman doesn’t play at the 19^th fret... he drops an octave and runs down to the bass string to the end of the section.

 

Here is the first part slowed down, so listen along with the score:

HOOP-E-KACK slowed to 40%

[Jody Stecher]

Sure enough so he is.

[Hal Allert]

I have been learning a lot of ragtime pieces lately with chromatic runs in them. I have generally reverted to my bluegrass days of using alternating 1st and 2nd strings with occasional 5th string open or thumbed with the left hand. But what I am hearing is more of a dee-dum than a dee-dee sound. I think one of my picking fingers is not as strong as the other and so it gives me that uneven sound. I have been able to use the single-string method but not all the notes on one string like the 1st. Strangely, my runs going up the scale are smoother than the ones coming down the scale. Any thoughts?