Me again, I'm afraid.

I am starting the alternate finger exercises and note that they start with the index finger rather than the thumb. To me, this seems counter-intuitive but I imagine there is a good reason for this.

I'm the kind of learner that needs to understand things so an explanation would be good.

Thank you

Eric

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I'm the kind of question answerer that needs to understand a question before giving an answer. Which alternate finger exercises are you referring to? What book? What century? Do you mean Ian's video on this site? (I think probably not because he presents exercises that begin with thumb as well as with index). I agree that in the abstract beginning with thumb makes more sense than beginning with index. But in actual banjo music there are times where the reverse works better. And also there is alternate fingering between index and middle. So tell us what you mean please.

It is all to do with the flow of the fingers across the fingerboard. In the C maj scale you start and pick with the 1st finger. (Notice that the 1st finger moves towards you as you pick) The D is picked with the thumb (notice that it moves away from you) The the E with the 1st finger (moves towards you) and then the F with the thumb (moves away from you).

....  the G is on the open 3rd and you will find that the 1st finger is ready over the string ( and picks towards you).. then the thumb on the A (away from you)

....the B is on the  2nd string with the 1st finger ready to pick over the string (towards you) and the C with the thumb (away from you)

..the D is the first string, and guess what, the 1st finger is ready over the string to pick that (towards you)

This may be a bit long-winded, but  it is all to do with how the fingers are in readiness over the next string as you go up the scale and down again.

If you start with the thumb on C on the 4th you end with the F with the 1st finger picking towards you. This causes you to have to reach over to the 4th string to the 3rd string to start with your thumb and it is not as fluid as the way shown above.

Please bear in mind others will have different views.. BUT I am not telling you how it CAN be done I am telling how it WAS done.  If you doubt me... check out the TUTOR books by the famous players of the era and you will find that this is how they move across the fingerboard.

It is not necessarily how you would play all the notes when playing a solo...some may fall better  under a different finger or need more stress etc.

All I can say is that you REALLY should persevere with alternate fingering as it is the foundation for rapid movement up and down the fingerboard and rapidity of playing notes. As I said previously Scales are an ideal way to get used to alternating your fingers. If you get into the habit of playing repeated notes or sequences of notes with the same finger you will struggle in the future.

Learn the alternate fingering technique at the beginning and alter it as needed when you are proficient.. not vice versa.

If you check out the  "Learn to Play" section there videos about alternate fingering and scales and  exercises to download of several common scales and with alternate fingering shown.

One last point. Scales can be played at different positions of the fingerboard and much more "compactly" (as Bluegrass players do). These Classic Banjo scales often include a run up the fingerboard on the 1st string, that could be avoided by playing  the "bluegrass" way...BUT playing up the 1st is very good practice for jumping to different positions on the fingerboard and the use of the octave string...so do them the way shown!

Ian, the "bluegrass way" was anticipated 40 years earlier by Joe Morley. Compact fingering vertically across strings, as opposed to horizontally on one string was explicitly notated in the fingerings of A Banjo Revel for instance.

Eric, if you look at The Banjo And How To Play It by Emil Grimshaw you will see that his alternate fingering for the scale of C major begins with the index on the bass string.  But the scale of D major begins with the thumb. What is "correct" depends on context.

If you have been using only thumb and no index on your 4th and 3rd strings, how do you get any speed?

As for my own hand, no way will I start a scale passage with index. It makes my head hurt and my hand as well. As a player of bowed instruments and plectrum instruments, I typically play a downbeat with a down bow or a down stroke with the plectrum.  When playing finger style banjo the thumb moves down and the index moves up so down-up equals thumb-index. 

Indeed Jody..The Bluegrass way was and is used..but the exercise I suggest is to improve speed and transit up and down the CB fingerboard...not across it.

You make my point with your comment on the D major scale. It does indeed start on a thumb for the very reason I explained  ie. the transition across the strings. Notice in the scales that the thumb hits the last note on the lower string (away from you) then the index or second finger picks the next note of the scale on the next string.  It is all to do with the change from string to string... Even Mr Grimshaw did it that way :-)

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